Search billions of records on Ancestry.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ *"A FAREWELL TO ILLOGAN" - Are we actually descended from the /St. Clement /Nances? */(An alternative to the "Nance of Cornwall" theory)/ <#section2> <#section2>/Introduction/ -- In "/*Nance of Cornwall*/ ", Martin L. "Pete" Nance presented his research findings and conclusions about the Cornish ancestry of the Richard Nance, emigrant to Virginia by 1639, the probable ancestor of all American Nances. "Pete" concluded that our Richard Nance was probably the Richard Nance who was baptised 1610 in St. Kerverne, the son of John Harry Nance and the grandson of Richard Nance (baptised 1558 in Illogan) and his wife Alice Harry. Many Nance genealogists have incorporated this theory into their data. I think that there is a good chance that "Pete" was wrong, and that our ancestor actually sprang from another Cornish Nance family. The linchpin of the theory that the Richard Nance of Virginia was the Richard Nance who was baptised 1610 in St. Kerverne, was the belief that Richard Nance Virginia was born in 1604. /This/ was derived from the belief, that the 20-year-old servant of Sgt. William Sharpe, described in the "*Musters of the Inhabitants in Virginia 1624/1625*", was Richard *Nanse*. However, as I explain in "*/When did Richard Nance arrive in America?/* ", that belief is inaccurate. The name of that man was clearly Richard *Vause*. What this means is, that we do not actually know when Richard Nance, immigrant to Virginia, was born. /What are the implications of *not* knowing when Richard Nance was born?/ -- "/Nance of Cornwall/" described the three Nance pedigrees of Cornwall: the Nances of St. Ives, St. Kerverne, and St. Clement Parishes. It explained that the Nances of St. Ives and St. Kerverne shared a common origin with Robert Nans (d.bef. 1642), who was the apparent son of John Nans, Vicar of Maneccan church in 1385, Maneccan Parish, Menengue (Menenge). (Robert's son Lawerence Nans, who married Agnes Trudell, was the head of the St. Kerverne line, while Robert's son John Nans was thought to be the head of the St. Ives Nance line). "/Nance of Cornwall/" described the St. Clement Nances, but indicated that there connection to the other lines was not clear, and might arise as early as the 1300's. "/Nance of Cornwall/" ruled out the *St. Clement* Nances as the possible source of the immigrant Richard Nance -- for reasons which are unclear, but which may have been connected to the belief that the immigrant was born in 1604. Significantly, /there was a Richard Nance born in St. Clement in 1596/, a date of birth which would make him a very viable candidate to be the same Richard nance who was in Virginia, married to Alice, in 1639. So why was he ruled out? This is the entire explanation set forth in "/Nance of Cornwall/" for discounting the possibility that the St. Clement Nances produced our immigrant forbear: "This revue of the St. Clement family clears the way for us to eliminate all eligible males in this line as being the father of Richard Nance, emigrant to Virginia. The records are very good in this Parish after 1550, and shows the family fast adopting the alias of Park. I have no information that would indicate that any of this family lives today in Cornwall who uses the surname of Nance. The revue of the St. Ives family gives us a clear cut picture that we can not claim descent from this family..." "/Nance of Cornwall/" recognized that the St. Clement Nances included a Richard Nance born 1596. The way the line is dismissed seems remarkable in view of this, but I suspect that the reason was, that "Pete" Nance was committed to the idea that the Richard Nance of Virginia was born in *1604*. That, of course, would cause him to dismiss the Richard Nance born in 1596 as not being a possibility, and there were no other Richards produced by this line in the relevant time period. But, as I have noted, the 1604 birth date for the Virginia Richard Nance is unsupported. In addition, "/Nance of Cornwall/" was wrong about the St. Clement family "family fast adopting the alias of Park" after 1500. What follows is a reproduction of the lineage St. Clement Nances as it is set forth in "/Nance of Cornwall/" -- but I have annotated it with International Genealogical Index (IGI) entries which correspond to the people whose names are shown. (Note on IGI <#Note on IGI>). What they show, is that "/Nance of Cornwall/" was simply wrong to assert that the Nances of St. Clement were "fast adopting the alias of Parks" after 1550. Only one St. Clement Nance -- John and Agnes' son William -- seems to have adopted the alias Park The others are using the name Nance.Most were going by the surname "Nance" well into the 1600's: ------------------------------------------------------------- /(from "*Nance of Cornwall*"):/ JOHN NANCE, wife Agnes, parents of five daughters and three sons, John Jr., Clemence born 1551, and William. 1) JOHN JR. - John Nance, Jr. Married 1574 Parnell Tregonnan, died 1606 leaving will and sons: A) Clemo (Clemence) had sons John, William and Richard born 1596. i) John ii) William iii) Richard b. 1596 *[Richard NANCE Sex: M Event(s): Christened: 30 Jan 1596 Saint Clement, Cornwall, England Parents: Father: Clime NANCE Mother: Source Information: Batch number: C053101]* B) Henry, used alias Park, nothing known of children. C) Richard married 1604 Margaret Layne of Truro, sons Samuel and Henry born 1611. i) Samuel *[Samuell NANCE Sex: M Event(s): Christened: 8 Mar 1605 Saint Clement, Cornwall, England Parents: Father: Richd NANCE Mother: Source Information: Batch number: C053101 ]* ii) Henry *[Henry NANCE Sex: M Event(s): Christened: 17 Nov 1611 Saint Clement, Cornwall, England Parents: Father: Richard NANCE Mother: Source Information: Batch number: C053101] * a) John *[John NANCE Sex: M Event(s): Christened: 22 Feb 1637 Saint Clement, Cornwall, England Parents: Father: Henery NANCE Mother: Source Information: Batch number: C053101] * iii) Thomas *[Tho NANCE Sex: M Event(s): Christened: 15 Jan 1616 Saint Clement, Cornwall, England Parents: Father: Richd NANCE Mother: Source Information: Batch number: C053101]* iv) Hannah *[ Hanna NANCE Sex: F Event(s): Christened: 30 Jan 1619 Saint Clement, Cornwall, England Parents: Father: Richd NANCE Mother: Source Information: Batch number: C053101]* 2) *CLEMENCE*, b. 1551. *[Clemence NANCE Sex: M Event(s): Christened: 21 Dec 1551 Saint Clement, Cornwall, England Parents: Father: John NANCE Mother: Source Information: Batch number: C053101 ]* A) John. *[John NANCE Sex: M Event(s): Christened: 2 Oct 1576 Saint Clement, Cornwall, England Parents: Father: Clemence NANCE Mother: Source Information: Batch number: C053101]* B) Mathais. C) William born 1595. D) Joan 3) JANE *[Jane NANCE Sex: F Event(s): Christened: 1 Nov 1555 Saint Clement, Cornwall, England Parents: Father: John NANCE Mother: Source Information: Batch number: C053101]* 4) WILLIAM -- William, alias Park, one daughter. A) Elizabeth born 1599. [Elizabeth PARKE Sex: F Event(s): Christened: 2 Mar 1599 Saint Clement, Cornwall, England Parents: Father: William PARKE Mother: Source Information: Batch number: C053101] 5) CHARYTE*[Charyte NANCE Sex: F Event(s): Christened: 29 Apr 1561 Saint Clement, Cornwall, England Parents: Father: John NANCE Mother: Source Information: Batch number: C053101 ]* ------------------------------------------------------------- What is notable, of course, is that these records of the St. Clement Nance family show a *RICHARD Nance*, christened *1596*. This is in the right range to have been the immigrant Richard Nance who was in Virginia by at least 1636. Certainly, it is possible that our immigrant forbear was the Richard Nance baptized 1610 in St. Kerverne -- but it is also possible, at least equally possible, that it was the Richard Nance who was christened 1596 in St. Clement. In fact, it is arguably more likely, that we descend from the St. Clement Nances. /The "Clement" connection -- /One of the notable features which Nance genealogists confront as they delve into this family, is the recurrence of the name "Clement" among the males. The given name Clement appears as early as the 1760s, when it is given to sons in at least two branches of the American family. Thereafter, it recurs consistently. Its frequency in the Nance family is much higher than in the general population in the times and places where it is found. Almost always, when families gave their children uncommon names -- names which are not used in the Bible -- the name was actually the surname of another family to whom their was a connection by marriage. (A frequent pattern, though by no means the only one, was for a son to be given the surname of his father's mother as his given name). Years of research, however, have not established any connection by marriage between the early Nance family of Virginia, and the Clement family. Could the name "Clement" have come from Cornwall? I think the possibility of this is good. Among the old Nance family groups in Cornwall, the /*only*/ one in which a given name like "Clement" is found, is in the Nances of St. Clement. In that Nance family, one finds the name *Clemence*, which is very similar to the *Clement*. In the group of St. Clement Nances described in "Nance of Cornwall", one finds two of them. /And one of the Clemence Nances of the St. Clement Nance line, is the *father* of the *Richard* *Nance*, b. 1596, who is in the right range to have been the immigrant to America./ Richard Nance, b. 1596 in St. Clement, Cornwall, was the son of "Clemo" (Clemence) Nance (who himself had an uncle named Clemence Nance). If the Richard Nance of St. Clement was the immigrant to Virginia, he would certainly have taken with him to America his knowledge that his father's name was "*Clemence*" -- /and/, it should not be lost sight of, that his home in Cornwall had been in St. "*Clement*" parish. It seems probable, that something of this knowledge of the family background would have been passed on to Richard's children, and grandchildren. With these two names as part of the family's "origin" traditions, it would not have been surprising to see the name reappear as a given name. Speculation? Of course -- to some degree. However, it is grounded in fact. There /was/ a Richard Nance b. 1596 in St. Clement Parish, Cornwall, in 1596, the son of a man named Clemence Nance. It is just as likely that /this/ Richard was our immigrant forbear, as that it was the Richard Nance christened 1610 in St. Kerverne. The name of his father, and of his home parish, seem to recur in the given names of American Nances. He is certainly worthy of being considered a candidate to be our ancestor. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ [Nance Genealogy Clearinghouse Home ] ------------------------------------------------------------------------ *Note on IGI: * The IGI entries for the St. Clement Nances are very reliable. The "C" prefix on the Batch Number given in the IGI entries indicates that the entry is from a primary source in the LDS record extraction program, in which original records were systematically entered into the IGI database All of these particular IGI entries are in fact from the same record, *Batch number C053101*, which is a comprehensive listing of christenings in Saint Clement Parish, Cornwall. These International Genealogical Index entries are taken from the LDS www.familysearch.org website. [*Back <#Back from Note on IGI>*] ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Census Records | Vital Records | Family Trees & Communities | Immigration Records | Military Records Directories & Member Lists | Family & Local Histories | Newspapers & Periodicals | Court, Land & Probate | Finding Aids